they threaten to blow up our own country's economy to get certain things done. think about it. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. more politics ahead with al sharpton. after all their talk the republicans still can't pass their own plan? breaking news tonight, speaker boehner delays the big vote indicating he does not have votes to pass it. it all raises the big question, has the tea party taken control of boehner's house? plus, wouldn't you love to know what mr. economy thinks about all this? too bad. because mr. romney is not talking. how's that for leadership. and waiting with wait until you meet the latest extremist to

log on to perry's prayer route. i'm al sharpton. breaking news. boehner abruptly delayed a make or break vote on his own debt plan. the speaker frantically been trying to whip up support from tea party republicans all day long. it is an indication that he simply does not have the votes to pass his plan. it is unclear when the vote will happen. the fear here would be a stunning setback for his leadership and for the g oo p establishment as it battles with party members. joining me is nbc's luke russell live on capitol hill. luke, can you tell us what is happening here? >> good evening reverend al. an alarming piece of news that came to us about 15 minutes ago. democratic aides received word from the republican floor staff and in fact the bill about the boehner debt plan would not come to a vote. at its scheduled time. 6:15 p.m. there is no reason given

precisely except the speculation is around here and from talking to gop aides, they are not there with the 216 votes to get this bill to the house representatives with only republican support. so as of right now, instead of voting on the boehner debt bill they will vote on naming post offices. there are about eight of those. they will take 40 minutes of debate on those. foreseeable delay this for 320 minutes. of that they can call a recess to the house floor of the subject of the chair and try it find the last few votes. i'm told -- all types of numbers between 30 a, 50 a, we do know it is under ten votes of passing it but they are not quite there yet. the reason being, the right folks in the right part of the house, gop conferences doesn't think this bill does enough. they think it will continue the culture spending in washington. it is not too the right enough for them to gto vote for it. >> i want people to understand the gravity of this. i mean, boehner has been out there all day.

really since yesterday. trying to get his voting to. and here we are, minutes before the vote is scheduled, and all after sutd republicans go and say let's talk about naming a post office in peoria, illinois. i mean, this is a real, real test of boehner's influence on his own republican caucus, wouldn't you say? >> absolutely. this is a game changer right now, reverend al. the reason being is that boehner, eric cantor, kevin mccarthy for the left few days have been whipping this vote in the house gop conference. meaning, they have been trying to fire up their conference, showing video clips. today they had a former notre dame football player stand up and say we got to go knock the snot out of the democrats. this is a president pour obama. so using every tactic they can to say why this is the path forward. if this is knock it out of house tonight, reverend, there is a

real possibility that speaker boehner lost all his leverage, that house republicans no longer has a seat at the bargaining table. and you know who is sitting on the other side of the capitol smiling is harry reid. as you realize as this goes bye and bye, that his position is strengthening. they still think it will be on the floor tonight and have a final vote on it. it remains to be seen when. >> they change their tone. last night they were talking about how boehner was telling aught of the guys and ladies in the republican party, get your behinds in line. and he did say that night. tonight he is sanging one of james browns old songs, please, please, please. thank you. >> thank you. >> luke russet, thank you again for your reporting live from capitol hill. well, boehner's plan would be a disaster for the country. it includes over $900 billion in initial cuts.

and then it calls for an extra $1.8 trillion in cuts that are likely to gut social security and medicare. and yet, another debt limit vote around christmas. if the house passes boehner's plan, the senate will take it up tonight. but harry reid says, democrats will stop it cold. joining me now, senator sheldon white house, democrat from rhode island. he serves on the budget committee. senator, thank you for joining us tonight. >> good to be with you, reverend. >> does boehner's plan die tonight if in fact it does get to the senate? >> yeah, we think it will die tonight. a letter was already sent over to the speaker telling him that every democrat would vote against it. so it is really dead on arrival. plus, the rating agencies have said that it won't cure the downgrade of the united states credit, so why would we want to

vote for something that doesn't protect us from a credit downgrade. >> so the credit agencies are saying it does not protect us from a downgrade? >> correct. >> all right. now, i think people need to understand that exactly what is in the bill. let me put up this graph. because i want you to help us walk through so that ordinary people can understand, first of all, what is in the boehner bill. the boehner bill includes certain cuts and then it does not include others. let's look at what the boehner bill does include. what is in this bill? senator? what is -- what is boehner proposing here? >> well, they are very extreme cuts in the very short term. that would have two likely effects. the first is they would knock down the economic recovery by being so immediate. most responsible economists recognize that you cannot knock down the recovery now. we can agree now to make cuts

later but to take that money out of the economy now would be a disaster. and the republicans are persistently attacked medicare. the house republican budget. the ryan budget would have ended medicare in a decade. and thrown everybody into the tender mercies of the private health insurance industry. america hated that. 80% numbers, americans rejected that. so they brought back cut, cap and balance which was worse, hidden behind that slogan. they are continuing to target medicare. >> what is not in the bill, let me put up a graphic because you explain what is in it. what is not in it is oil and gas subsidies. corporate loop holes. hedge fund tax breaks. all of these things remain as they are. >> correct. >> and it shows how far harry reid has come. and what democrats are to

compromise that reid proposal at this point doesn't include either. we have basically told the republicans you wanted $2.7 trillion, you wanted more than the debt limit. you wanted no help from the reading, no help from corporate jet owners. no help from big oil. we will give you that too. how about that. they are saying no too. >> reid's plan is a hike through 2012. rather than going through this again around christmas time. $2.7 trillion in saving but no new revenue, no new entitlement. there are some saying these are the same plans. that's not true, is it, senator? >> there are two very important differences. the first is that the reid plan protects medicare, medicaid and social security which is what the american people want. >> it does protect that. >> it does protect all three of them. >> it is very important that by

postponing any further action on the debt limit until after the reaction we ask start to get to work on what really concerns americans, which is jobs and getting the economy back together. what the tea party would like to do is keep the manufactured debt republican crisis going and at six months, means we are at it right away. and while all this is going on, we are not paying attention to jobs or the economy and we are not making life better for regular american families. >> i'm glad to hear you say that. because i think that when i talk to people all over the country, people are saying why aren't they talking about jobs in washington? and that every poll i've seen and in my own moving around, people want to know where are the jobs. and we have focused on jobs in times of deficits before. i'm glad to hear you say that we are at least hearing from some leadership on the democratic side that wef got to get this

country back it talking about jobs. >> well, the republicans have very carefully and creatively created this debt limit crisis which they can make go away like that, if they want to, as a way to displace -- jobs and the economy and that's why the six-month delay is to bad. it will keep this distraction on the debt limit going and it will prevent us from doing infrastructure work. the green energy work that we need to do. p to put people back it work here in america. >> senator sheldon whitehouse, thank you. >> thank you, reverend. >> now from the washington post and msnbc analyst richard wolfe.

dana to you on the hill first, do you have any information we didn't get from luke? can you give me some inside tidbits on how the vote is not coming around for speaker, get your butt in line baner? >> not quite the way he ordered. i think he laid it out pretty well. i was in the house press gallery when this happened. it was really a thunderclap. early this afternoon, house republican leaders were very confident in the news conference giving out all of the signs they had the votes. in fact when they first said they were delaying the vote, people figured, somebody's plane is delayed or they are trying to keep the senate from acting on this. this comes as a shock right now pch you have to look at this in a vote of terms of confidence. if he can't get this back on the floor and guess it passed -- >> he is already embarrassed. here is a man now, let's not

forget who one minute storms out the white house. another minute says, the president keeps moving the gold post, he is big and bad and comes yesterday. get your butt in line. and i'm cleaning his language up. now we come down to 15 minutes before the vote. and they say, we still have to try and do votes here. richard, this is embarrassing on the way to being mortally wounded in the words of dana millbank. >> a couple of points here. i think the most damaging quote from john boehner's lips this week is what he said after the president spoke to the president this later and he was the speaker of the house 37 he has been speaker of the republican majority that strategy clear s clearly failing him right now. if he wanted to be the speaker of the whole house he could get votes for something that would cut spending and raise the debt ceiling right now. but he is choosing to just work with his own party and that's been his down fall here.

having said all of that, there is an even bigger story than john boehner's crisis of leadership and that's an economic crisis. not just about jobs but what will the financial markets do because congress is so disfunkal. whether or not this passes or whether or not john boehner is a leader in any meaningful way, it is only a small part of the story. what he is trying to do is dead tonight. then the real work begins, this is the second type of posturing we have seen from the republicans on this issue. when are they going to get down to real business? >> isn't part of the problem when you talk about when richard talks about leadership, dana, isn't it part of the problem that have the beginning, boehner has seen incapable of showing real leadership and standing up to the tea party? one thing you have to give president obama, whether you agree or disagree, support him or not, he is has said i'm willing to stand up to some in my own party that will be disappointed and say, i will do

this. mr. boehner seems to keep trying to have the tea party in his column. he hugs eric cantor. i mean, he's been doing the michael jackson moon walk since last friday. >> well, reverend, you almost need it feel bad a little bit for john boehner. because it does seem that he has so very little room to maneuver here. the president obama is in a much stronger position to sort of speak to his base. we thought john boehner could do this and ultimately say you got to give me this vote guys. it really looked as if he had it and certainly his leadership team lined up behind him. that's why this is so debilitating. richard is right. there are much larger problems than this. that basically means he lost control of his house majority. the house becomes ungovernable. this means we basically can't get anything through this chamber or through this congress. >> even if he comes through, richard, limb 7ing. i mean he is certainly clearly

embarrassed and clearly has a weaker hand than he was projecting just a few hours ago. >> yes, sure he does. remember that in washington, power is what people perceive it to be as well as what it actually is. the fact they were out there briefing reporters saying with this is in the bag and then dial it back, that's what they've been telling members of congress too and that hasn't come to pass. there a vote-counting question. and how to you project power. in the end this is negotiated with the senate and white house. they weaken themselves in the negotiation which means can they get the new bill, the real bill through their own house. what do they have to do to get democratic votes as well in that position. this is still only the middle of the inning. we haven't reached the end of it at all. >> i tell you something i learned in my years out here gentlemen, it is better to be

underest maded and foolen than overestimated and foolish. thank you so much. ahead, despite what boehner said, the tea party is refusing to get in line. and we are five days away from default. do colorado it happen? we'll ask former secretary of labor, robin rache what owe thinks. that's next. [ male announcer ] mio. a revolutionary water enhancer. add a little...or a lot. for a drink that's just the way you like it. make it yours. make it mio.

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the news at this hour is that speaker john boehner has delayed the vote on his plan in the house. he does not have the vote. a spokesman in the last few moments has told us, it is a reasonable assumption that the vote is being delayed because he doesn't have votes. that means that all of the talk, all of the bring it on talk from speaker boehner, when mr. reid

and the senate says okay we'll wait for you, he says, i'll be back. give me a couple hours. that's what is going on. with the republicans in the house. e? my grandfather was born in this village. [ automated voice speaks foreign language ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language. ♪ in here, forklifts drive themselves. no, he doesn't have it. yeah, we'll look on that. [ male announcer ] in here, friends leave you messages written in the air. that's it right there. [ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. that's not how successful investing is done. at e-trade it's harnessing some of the most powerful yet easy to use trading tools on the planet to help diversify, identify opportunities, take action. it's using professional grade research and your brain to seek maximum returns to reach your goals. it's investing with intelligence

and cold hard conviction. you made the money. you should have everything you need to invest it. e-trade. investing unleashed. we are determined to foit for the american people. >> where are the jobs. >> where are the ons. >> americans are still asking the question, where are the jobs. >> the republican rally during the 2010 election was, where are the jobs? but these days, all they want to talk about is the nation's debt.

the prty has steered the national conversation in the wrongs direction at a time when americans care most about getting back to work. join meg now is former secretary of labor, and chancellor's professor of public policy at university of california at berkeley, robert reich. he is also author after book "aftershock." how did democrats take control of this conversation? speaking with the national urban league and that's what we are talking about, we are talkinging out of the book of reich. how are we on the wrong conversation? we are talking about deficit reduction and our jobs. >> yeah. well look at, let's be very clear. i think the president, every democrat, every politician, every leader has it make sure that the public understands the crisis right now is a jobs

crisis and it is not a budget crisis. i mean the united states is the richest country in the world. the budget problems den years from now could be serious but we don't have to address them this instant. in fact by addressing them now, cutting the deficit now, we actually withdraw money and jobbes from the company. this is the worst time to be asteer. this is the worst time for a budget cutting strategy. yet the republicans have grabbed the lime light and created the impression, manufactured a budget crisis simply because they linked, a budget deficit reduction that they wanted and they insist on, to the -- what heretofore has been a very technical legal, almost automatic legal process, which is raising the budget deficit. raising the debt limit. there is no debt connection between raising the debt limit and doing something about the budget deficit ten years from now. yet the republicans have created the impression that there is a

connection and unfortunately, democrats and the white house have sort of played into that. >> see, i think that bringing that point home, i was talking to a young man today in boston who said he never understood what the debt limit was about. never followed this before. i said, no, don't feel you're misinformed, it's never been an issue before. i think that if you have raised this better than anyone on the national scene. they've been able to control the conversation. one of the ways is they limited who is in the conversation. that's why they flip out when people like you and i can get on television. because if they can limit who is having the conversation, they can decide what conversation is. the conversation in this country aught to be about how everyday working americans that are not working and have become chronically unemployed are going to get their jobs. we're not the only ones that feel like that secretary reich. 53% of people polled say the economy and jobs are the

country's most important problems. >> of course. and the big lie that's being told repeatedly by republican says somehow if we shrink the government, shrink the deficit, we will create jobs. it is just the opposite. you get rid much teachers, postal workers, police officers. you get rid of everybody whop now is working for the public. you cut all government contracts with everybody who is now hiring people. you do all of that and you create fewer jobs. we are seeing now, government doing exactly opposite of what government has done in every one of the last eight recessions to try to bring back jobs and what government has always done. in fact, did it finally, ultimately after the great depression, in world war ii, you create jobs because government spends money to get people back to work. >> now, i think that's an important point. in the last eight recessions you're saying, that the response of government was even in times of deficits, to spend money

creating jobs, not going with an you a stairity plan? >> yes, al. what happens is when people have jobs, they pay taxes. when the economy is growing because people have jobs and they also buy things and create other jobs, then the government deficit shrinks as a proportion of the entire economy. you know, right the second world war the deficit was 120% of the entire economy. the debt was 120% of the entire economy. what happened of that? economy grew. we had good times. the government continued to spend. we had the a cold war. we built the highway system. we built a system of higher education. yes, there were higher taxes on the wealthy. but the main point is we put people back it work and everybody benefitted. there was a lesson learned pch

nixon said, that even he understood what we have to do when times are tough, when people are strapped, when there is high unemployment, government will step in and prime the pump and be the employer and the spender of last resort. these republicans are so cad wall, so right-wing they're going back to a philosophy of 1929. >> it is amazing that it is so radical and extreme that you say, do they actually have robert reich and al sharpton quoting richard mixon? who would have thunk it? >> who would have thought. >> thanks for your time tonight. >> thanks, al. >> tonight, mitt romney slams president obama on the economy but won't take a stand on debt fight. and we are following breaking news. the tea parties it the boss to get in line. boehner scrambles to get the votes tonight.

we'll talk to a prominent tea party activists ahead. ÷@x

romney says he doesn't like obama's leadership but he is failing to show any of his own. that's our con job of the day. there is one word romney loves to throw around on the campaign trail, it's lead. >> if we have leaders that will tell the truth, and lead with

integrity, and who know where to lead us, then america will remain as its always been. >> i hope to be one of those leaders with your help. >> why isn't the president leading? >> but mitt sure seems to pass the buck. here's how he is leading in the debt talks. >> there are people working out a series of negotiations right now. i'm not going to comment on the day-to-day negotiating process. >> and he took the same tag during budget talks earlier this year. he wouldn't sign on to the ryan budget saying quote, i'm going to propose my own plan and my plan will be some what different than what paul ryan's plan is. but i support the objectives of the paul ryan plan. shouldn't the leading republican candidate take a stand on the biggest issues facing our country? of course it is easy to criticize than to solve a problem. but for mitt romney to slam president obama's leadership and president obama's leadership and then avoid taking a stand,

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it's . welcome back to the show. big news tonight, the planned vote on speaker boehner's debt plan is not happening. it is another step backwards for boehner as he tries to prevent the gop from descending into outright chaos. boehner told tea partiers in the house to quote, get their as in line and support him. but check this out. think progress is keeping a running tally for all house republicans who are still against the plan. 26 in all, enough to defeat boehner's bill. the heart of the problem, resistance from the tea party. well with me now is phillip dennis, founder of the dallas tea party. a group that claims to have 20,000 members. well, are you happy or sad to see mr. boehner on the brink of a real disaster here?

>> well, i kind of feel strongly both ways. first of all i would like to say in almost three years, president obama and democrats have not submitte democrats have setback not done anything to alleviate the situation. it is not just like the debt limit crept up, oh, there it is. it has been coming a long time. they chose to setback, demagogue and scare old ladies. >> but what about -- >> let me finish. >> okay, go ahead. >> then they thought the republicans would go ahead, give them tax increases, debt limit increase. i'm happy that tea party put the fright into the republicans to vote against this madness. >> now, let me ask you something. when you say for three years, almost three years that mr. president obama and the democrats, have you ever heard of george bush? maybe you might --

>> absolutely. >> -- recall that the debt inherited started with bush and when clinton handed bush the white house we were in a surplus and when mr. bush handed it to mr. obama we were in a deficit with two wars that might have something to do with the debt that you are talking about the country's in? we did not get the debt mr. president obama. we inherited it from mr. bush and it was handed to president obama. >> if you're looking for a fan of obama or bush, the tea party did not doo it for president bush. that's why the republicans lost power in 2006. president bush added $4 trillion to the deficit in eight years and that's pitiful. terrible and we have kicked him out of office for that. president obama increased the deficit by $4.5 trillion in less than three years which is

insanity from a fiscal stand oint. we are saying that the tea party -- >> you are saying that the tea party kicked president bush out of office? >> we certainly stopped voting for them, for the republicans and we stopped sending them money, absolutely. that's why president obama was -- >> i missed something. i thought president bush left because he couldn't run again any way and i thought, it was mccain that was defeated. let me show what you mccain thinks about tea party politics because this is ran who ran against president obama, not president bush. little historic fact. president bush did lose 2008 election. he had already lost the economy but he didn't lose the election. >> he lost control of congress in 2006. >> let's look at senator mccain. >> that is not fair. >> that is not fair to the american people. to hold out and say we won't agree to raise the debt limit until we pass it a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. it is unfair. it is bizarro.

and people who is been in this body six or seven months really believe that. >> bizarro. that's what senator mccain, of your party thereof too much fun for tea party fresh r freshmen. >> the lord of the rhinos we don't care what he has to say and that for his insin yigs, the miss cal conservatives should sit back and trust the people in washington for 40 years and run up $13.3 trillion deficit then we should let them drive us down the road until we are over the cliff is insanity. so we don't pay much attention to senator mccain. >> the lord of the rhinos. >> you can quote me on that. >> you didn't like bush either. who do you guys like? are you going to run candidates and primaries, some of the republican smes. >> absolutely. this is a funny thing that i think the democrats are missing harry reid and nancy pelosi.

the last election we sent home 63 big spending democrats but we are not loyal to the republican party. we are loyal to leaders who exercise fiscal responsibility. so in the next election in november, we plan it send home another 63 democrats and 63 big spending republicans as well. anyone showing that fiscal insanity, we a primary tlen, then you better believe it. >> you will spend 63 republicans home. >> we would love to. here is the thing that the tea party after all of the names and everybody calling us on the republican rhino machine, that's all they called us. the root core, we ask for your government to spend one less penny than it takes in in revenue peps we cannot go on borrowing 43 cents on the trillions of dollars we borrow and spend every year. >> if that is your real goal, why don't you want to see those that are the super rich have to

pay their regular tax and close these loop holes? i mean, let me show you something. you look at a guy like john paulson. here is a guy who made $4.9 billion, with a b, last year. the equivalent of 184,000 american citizens per capita. i mean, why aren't you talking about closing loop holes and making sure this guy isn't paying his earned taxes as a state tax in the tax loophole. why doesn't that bother you? >> because the tea party believes that we don't have a revenue problem in washington, d.c. we have a spending problem i will say that guy that you just mentioned, i haven't heard of him but the top 1% paid more than the bottom 95% total together. we have a situation now, i would like for to you discuss this one time. we have 50% of americans that don't pay any federal income taxes.

you have the top 1% pays 50% of the tax in this country is absolutely -- >> have you people in the top 1% -- you have people in the top 1% that their tax under the tax codes, their percentage is less than some of the secretaries that work for them. let's be clear on where the wealth is in this country and where it is not. if you are really fighting pour fem p em that are grass root from the bottom that are trying to survive, how do you give a pass to the super rich? >> are you calling paying 50% of the taxes if you are in the top 1% a pass? that's absolutely incredible. what about the 48% on the bottom that don't pay anything. half of the country doesn't pay any federal inkuks taxes. everybody needs to have skin in the game. >> so they need equal skin in the game. have you corporations paying no tax eats the top. what i don't understand is, and again you made the point twice, that you seem to focus on who you claim are at the bottom and

you keep giving a pass, won't even discuss the guys at the top. in your statement to me, you keep acting like, well, they are all right. how are they all right when they are paying a lower percentage than some people who work for them. they have loop holes that can give that that kind of money. loop holes with corporate taxes, creating more jobs overseas than they are in america. are you rep skening americans? or are you representing the super rich? >> absolutely. i know a lot of people around this country, i don't know one person that has a private jet that you and president obama have decided to demagogue as being the most evil people on earth. i do know that wealthy people create jobs. i never worked for a poor man or poor woman before. they provided me a good living. they pay more than their fair share of taxes. i believe everybody in america should be some tax. >> let me say this, ily thy a

lot of rich people are creating jobs they are just not creating them in the united states. thank you phillip dennis, founder of the dallas tea party. good luck on getting rid of those republicans next year. thank you for your time. >> thank you. ahead, is boehner playing the role of the grinch for politics in our panel debates. and governor perry is distancing himself from his own prayer meeting. after hearing who signed up, there's no surprise. that's next. stick around. jeff, lunch!

calling a big prayer meeting but you would be surprised some of people that are on it. that's next. mes in a clear pack. [ cellphone beeps ] [ jeff ] ooh. thanks hun! [ female announcer ] ...so the freshness you see is what you taste. ♪ it doesn't get better than this ♪ so i want to major in biology. miss gopie is the best teacher i ever had. she's amazing, i love her. [ jade ] i'm teaching jasmine ap biology. i knew she had the talent... i always pushed her. [ jasmine ] her class you literally have to think, like it takes so long to do her homework. [ jade ] she's gained the confidence that she can achieve anything. [ jasmine ] i'm going to be a pediatrician... and i'm going to make this dream come true. a 100 percent.

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welcome back to the show. for some of the hottest stories of the day you bring on the power panel. democratic communications consultant and political analyst and also with us lit cal reporter perry bacon junior and heidi harris, conservative talk show host of the heidi harris show. on kdwn in las vegas. so, let me start with you, heidi.

rick perry, called for a prayer for deliver re deliver ens pp deliverance. as right wing eval gel car groups have been stepping up to support it. now it looks like perry is not sure what he will even be doing there. yesterday he told a reporter quote, i'm going to be there, i may be ushering for all i know. >> i think it is great he is doing this. it is is making the left crazy that he is praying. if they want to prayer they can. if they don't want to, they don't have to. i don't know why the left is going crazy about this. >> i don't know if they are going crazy in the prayer. some of us pray everyday all day without ceasing. i think that some are raising some of the people that are

involved. for example, jamaal, i wassi looking at governor perry's site and a name that is alarming to me and an endorser of the prayer meeting, i don't know if he will be there but he is an endorser. he is a guy that became very well known for a scene like this. look at mr. shank in one of thinks great public appearances. he is walking up to bill clinton in 1992, giving him a fetus. now, this is the guy that is going to -- that is listed as one of the endorsers of the prayer. so i don't think that the controversy or the concern is the praying, it is wh who is doing the praying and towards what purpose, jamaal? >> i think that is actually right. the only thing i have to say it rick perry is welcome to the

nfl. you think you can run for president with all of these kind ever cookie right-wingy people around you and not have the american people care, you're off to the wrong beat. the american people will never stand for a president who spends time with a bunch of folks that they are appalled by their behavior. even people doing quote unquote pro life or against abortion, there is a limit to that for most of them. they don't think you should be assaulting people and going after a presidential candidates with fetuses. that is just out of control. for all of the folks coming to that, we see other ministers who have come. some have talked about nazis and favorably or god returning jewes to israel by using nazis. this is not the crowd the president is expected to hang out with. >> does the washington corps and political corps, is this a problem for governor perry if he

does get into the race? will he have to deal with extremists he is identifying himself with. as jamaal says, it is the nfl now. it is different than the austin krk texas political press corps and you mean guys in washington and guys that get on the presidential campaign trail that hold it a much different standard. >> i think jamal is right. this is like a much more serious thing. rick perry is trying to say that effectively who comes to the event has nothing to do with me because i don't endorse their views. as you know, when you are running for office, president obama was criticized for people he invited to the white house. when you are running for president says something about you. so to some extent people would have scrutiny on who is around rick perry and on some of the first big event as a candidate. >> heidi, don't you think that some of the people that he may appeal to as conservative and republican primary says one

thing but if he were to make it it a general election this could be problematic? >> i don't know the left will try to portray them as problematic. as people you might not want to have for indinner will support you. you can't blame rick perry for that. if there is something that someone believes and stands by it, it is kind of refreshing for goodness sake. abortion won't be overturned. they are not hurting anybody. i'm not depending people who take take aught abortion doctors. nobody defends them. >> jamal? >> heidi, the difference is they didn't come out in support of rick perry. rick perry came out and supported this event. so he has it own some sort of responsibility for what happens that event because he promoted it. >> but what happens on the event, people will pray. if you look at white house, for this event, i'm sure you have, you see people from all

different backgrounds supporting this event. this is prayer, people coming together to pray for the knew to future of our nation. i don't see what is so bad about this. >> john boehner is looking for votes and aheady said we should not judge people to have dinner with. we should understand that people believe in what they believe should be understood. that's a news flash from the right. thank you, heidi. thank you, perry. thank you jamal. thank you for a great time. >> thanks. >> ahead, what would jesus cut? here's a hint. not what republicans are proposing. that's next. [ male announcer ] this is coach parker...

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as the debt ceiling debate raises on, have you ever thought what would jesus cut? are urging congress to consider. a liberal evangelical group

launched a series of ads that attack the current budget proposals for unfairly hurting the poor. this ad is air flg john boehner's district. >> our own representative boehner is risking the health of our economy in america defaults on debts all to pro tech the tax cuts. in budget debates the rich have many political prends, and lobbyists. the poor do not. >> there is letter saying quote, listen tole capitol church, not the tea party. asking him to defend the most vul flerable in society. well be there are conservative christians and conservative and liberals of every religion. i don't believe that religion should govern the country. i do believe, even though i'm a minister, in separate of church and state. but i believe we must have

values. values that do not, in my judge emt and in the judgment of other religious leaders. forget about those that are the most vulnerable and most forgoton. values that made this country, valued all over the world. why did people look up to america? not because we exalted the rich but because we lifted the poor. because we had people like dr. martin luther king, jr. and we believe in principles of people like gandhi and we look to people like mother teresa. they didn't accumulate great wealth. but they accumulated greatness. accumulated a reputation, a chiefed a reputation that lived far beyond their years. in the end, it is better to leave a good name than a full bank account. i would hope that we return to values and we judge our